Boundary Reorganization

[Randy Parrish CPF]

I don't want to down play anyone's participation in the matter but it's a lot of talk so far, could be a lot more work for something that may or may not come up, I just don't think working out Chapter Hopping is worth the effort. If it is the people directly concerned should speak up.

One thing this map simply illustrates is expanded chapter coverage, because the mail box chapter is gone now in the US.


Old map

 

[Ormond Williams MCPF]

It might be helpful for US PPFA members to understand the plight of Australia/NZ PPFA members to see that the Australia segment of our chapter is almost the same size as continental USA as in the image below.

One chapter and very little funding!

 

[John Barlowe]

I don't want to down play anyone's participation in the matter but it's a lot of talk so far, could be a lot more work for something that may or may not come up, I just don't think working out Chapter Hopping is worth the effort. If it is the people directly concerned should speak up.

Randy, I don't think anyone has been talking about "willie nillie" chapter hopping, at whim.

I think what has been talked about is allowing a potential member to choose which chapter they want to align themselves with. A person could have a multitude of personal reasons for wanting to do so. Hypothetical example, let's say that their auto-assigned chapter has events 200 miles from their location but another chapter has events 300 miles away. This person might want to align themselves with the chapter that is 300 miles away.

WHY WOULD THEY WANT TO DO THAT? - PERSONAL REASONS

• Maybe their family - best friends, whatever live in that area and they could justify making that 300 mile trip better that the 200 mile trip, killing 2 birds with one stone.
• Maybe their nemesis attends the event that is 200 miles away.
• Maybe their best friend who is also a framer lives 1 mile inside the chapter that is 300 miles away and the two want to travel / attend and compete together.
• Maybe there are dozens of other reasons

The people directly concerned aren't all speaking up because the majority of current PPFA members aren't even reading this thread and all of the future potential PPFA members of course aren't here yet. Some of us see it as a potential road block (that should be an easy fix ) if it really is expensive to fix that might be different but it doesn't really seem to be the case. I might be way off base and I sure don't know but if PMA does own PPFA then there must be money to be made in that ownership. If they are more concerned about what the cost is to serve their members then obviously it is just business that is resistant.

 

[Gregory K. Norris CPF]

[QUOTEIf I were managing the organization, I would not support a separate system for a sub-group.][/QUOTE]

Since you put it that way, I wouldn't either. :shame: And since I did just that in the 80's for a far larger organization than PPFA, I find our inability to flip a software switch and make these changes frustrating.

But to be fair, no one could have foreseen the way this has played out for PPFA. The IMIS system works fine for what it was intended to do, and as far as I can see, no other subgroups are limited by it.

I think sooner or later it is going to come down to: how bad do we want it? It isn't reasonable to expect PMA and the other subgroups to pay for changes that only benefit PPFA.

I really believe that rolling renewals and a choice in chapters can increase membership. Whether enough to pay for the changes, I don't know.

We will either have to make the case that all will benefit or figure out a way to pay for it.

 

[Glenn Renick]

I think what has been talked about is allowing a potential member to choose which chapter they want to align themselves with. A person could have a multitude of personal reasons for wanting to do so. Hypothetical example, let's say that their auto-assigned chapter has events 200 miles from their location but another chapter has events 300 miles away. This person might want to align themselves with the chapter that is 300 miles away.

WHY WOULD THEY WANT TO DO THAT? - PERSONAL REASONS

• Maybe their family - best friends, whatever live in that area and they could justify making that 300 mile trip better that the 200 mile trip, killing 2 birds with one stone.
• Maybe their nemesis attends the event that is 200 miles away.
• Maybe their best friend who is also a framer lives 1 mile inside the chapter that is 300 miles away and the two want to travel / attend and compete together.
• Maybe there are dozens of other reasons

As one of the proponents of chapter choice, what I was really thinking about were not the people who might have a reason for going 300 miles rather than the 200 miles where their assigned chapter would be meeting, but some very obvious situations where someone might be able to be a chapter officer and participate in competitions that are 40 miles away instead of that same 200 miles. While I still feel that is preferable, I'm backing off knowing that PMA is the limitation on our control of this situation. I do think as our "owner" they have some responsibility in helping with this issue. But I'm not holding my breath and I certainly don't want this issue to get in the way of making changes and improvements that require attention more than this.

Regarding the redrawing of chapter boundaries, I still think we might want to take a look at where some of the biggest population gaps occur and try not to put one smack in the middle of a chapter.

 

[Gregory K. Norris CPF]

Tri State Chapter Says Yes

From the "for what it's worth" department:

I just returned from my chapter meeting. Five hours on the road today; five hours yesterday. Just a little over 300 miles each way. One of the things we were analyzing was what the travel distance & times would be for our extended territory. As it turns out, not even the most remote areas would travel any further than I do.

With one exception, all of our board and a third of our membership was present. Though we noted that the lines fell just short of all the metropolitan areas in our sphere, we still unanimously approved the map as presented. We will remain for the foreseeable future a largely rural chapter. Our largest city is Pittsburgh with well under 400,000 pop.,(the next closest city is under 300,000). Pittsburgh will remain the center of our area in terms of travel. The historically active base of our membership resides within 2 hrs drive of Pittsburgh.


Maybe it isn't fair that those on the outer edge of the territory have to travel long distances. It is more expensive to attend meetings and events. We have to be away from our stores longer. For me it was an easy decision that I made a long time ago: Stay at home and learn nothing or travel and learn a lot.

I have said before that we are in many ways lucky to be in the business. Our classes are a tenth of the cost of many professions. Our dues are less than a third of the next least expensive association I know of. In many other business, 300 miles for a meeting or training would be considered a short distance. Attending one event a year should not be too much.

Our chapter does most of our administrative work by email with the occasional phone call. In a good year, we will all be in the same room 3 times. In between we have emails and some right-chatty telephone calls. We enjoy each other's company and learn from each other. Last night's meeting was the most fun I have had in a while. I had never met any of them until I attended a chapter meeting.

I realize that some chapters are going to encounter substantially greater travel distances if they attempt to have their meetings & events at their center. But they can be moved around the chapter to even this out. And of course, there is the previously noted sub-group option.

And there are other ways to make this more fair. Paying the registration for members who travel x-no. miles for events, by charging everybody a little over the revenue-neutral amount.

Subsidizing travel for some events. If you give out door prizes, give the best one to the member who traveled furthest. Do a 50/50 drawing and give the chapter's half to a traveler. There are lots of ways to create incentive to travel without breaking the chapter's bank. It will take some creative thinking.

Encourage members to attend adjacent chapter events that are geographically closer, and rewarding them for giving a report at the next chapter meeting. There have to be lots of workable incentives. I am not all that creative.

And yes, it will still be more expensive and troublesome for those who have to travel. Get over it...or come up with a plan that doesn't require a large percentage of the membership to travel to meetings.

Last night was an unusually long meeting, nearly 4 hrs. We still had to do all of our other planning too. Everybody else had to drive a couple of hours at 9:30 pm. I just had to cross the street to my hotel. Balance :smile:

One way or the other, we are going to have to re-think what a chapter is and what a chapter does. A lot of people have worked hard on the proposed plan, researched it carefully and had it vetted by the board and committee chairs before distributing the draft. And like most plans, it isn't perfect. It will see more changes in response to this thread. But it is a framework. Doing nothing is not an option.

 

[David Waldmann]

I realize that some chapters are going to encounter substantially greater travel distances if they attempt to have their meetings & events at their center. But they can be moved around the chapter to even this out.

New England chapter does this - not sure how much it helps but it seems like a good idea.

And there are other ways to make this more fair. Paying the registration for members who travel x-no. miles for events, by charging everybody a little over the revenue-neutral amount.

Subsidizing travel for some events. If you give out door prizes, give the best one to the member who traveled furthest. Do a 50/50 drawing and give the chapter's half to a traveler. There are lots of ways to create incentive to travel without breaking the chapter's bank. It will take some creative thinking.

Encourage members to attend adjacent chapter events that are geographically closer, and rewarding them for giving a report at the next chapter meeting. There have to be lots of workable incentives. I am not all that creative.

Really. I have found in general that when someone says they aren't very good at something it's because it's easy for them and therefore they assume they aren't doing well because it's not hard, and we all know that good work takes effort...

No doubt there are other good ideas out there, but the above are very out of the box and forward thinking ideas IMO. And while I still believe that a hub based chapter is a better solution, if we're going to continue to have geographic bounds then we need to work with what we have. I, for one, will not beat a dead horse.

 

[Randy Parrish CPF]

The only way a hub based chapter could be possible is to have a flexible database, because you would get FAR more members having to move than you do now. In reality it already operates like a hub, most chapters have meetings in centrally located spots, I know we do but we also have to have them in other areas as well as our membership is far and wide.

 

[James R Cook GCF]

Reading all the posts I would say the matter has been decieded without each chapter having a vote on the matter of restructure..

 

[Randy Parrish CPF]

Reading all the posts I would say the matter has been decieded without each chapter having a vote on the matter of restructure..

It is being worked on, but it has not been approved, the Board of Directors voted to have this put before the membership for discussion. Something has to be done about inactive chapters, because the current model of 27 chapter is not working and must be reduced from the membership high 20 years ago. The Mail Box chapter was not being served by that model either and territory has been expanded to include all of the continental United States. Just last year 2 California Chapters merged.

 

[Gregory K. Norris CPF]

The decision has not been made. If it had, we wouldn't be having this discussion. This is the venue where the decision will be made. Every member has an opportunity to participate in the discussion.

The discussion has been going on for some months at the chapter leadership level. Every chapter leader, and many prior leaders (everyone on the email list) were presented the first draft by way of email and the Framers Corner, then the plan was discussed at the Chapter Leadership Conference. Several changes occurred as a result of these discussions. The Chapter Relations Committee, all volunteers, has gone back to the drawing board several times. The plan has changed substantially, and could change again. Once every committee chair and every chapter leader had a chance to poll their membership, the plan was presented in its refined form to the entire membership for further discussion.

Clearly, the message did not reach all members by way of the chapter officers & board members since so many members seem surprised that there was any planning going on at all. Frankly, to my mind, this argues for the necessity of change. If the chapters were functioning as they should, every member would have seen the plan last fall.

If you will read back a few posts, you will see that the Tri-State chapter did meet and did actually vote on what we recommend. None of us is completely satisfied with the plan, and we have a lot of questions that only time and experience will answer. The fact that no one is jumping up and down excited about the plan suggests to me that it is a good plan.

Your chapter should weigh in. These days, you could have a vote by the end of the week utilizing email. It is no longer necessary to have face time to make decisions. Your chapter may come up with suggestions and creative solutions that no one has thought of yet.

 

[James R Cook GCF]

[HL]"the Board of Directors voted to have this put before the membership for discussion"[/HL]

Do you not think that each chapter that restructuring will disolve should be given the voice through a vote?

Not just a forum that has a discussion about what has been derived at by a select few.

 

[Gregory K. Norris CPF]

As I have previously noted, a "select few" did not create this plan.

 

[Randy Parrish CPF]

Jim I did not come up with this plan nor was I part of it's creation, I have put myself in the discussion since it was announced on Chapter Leaders Exchange and I had a lot of questions regarding it, it has been a slow process for me but I have come to support it. It has been discussed since last December on the Chapter Leaders Exchange, I have repeatedly told the Great Lakes Chapter board about the plan, some have viewed the threads some haven't. As the saying goes you can lead a horse to water...

I found the info I mentioned earlier about chapter activity and what the staff and leaders have to handle. Here it is, from Robin Gentry.

Hi Everyone, Here is some basic information to help you understand why there are efforts being made at reorganization of the chapters. This does not answer everything but will give you a brief idea.

One item the chapters are required to do after each election is have every board member fill out a chapter contact information sheet and submit this to National. The current report shows 11 chapters have not submitted these forms or have missing forms. These are to be updated every year even if the board does not change.

Every chapter is required to send in year end financial reports, to date 20 chapters have not sent in these reports or have only sent in partial reports.

Each chapter is required to have at minimum a President, Vice President, Secretary, and Treasurer (Secretary and Treasurer can be the same person) along with 3 board members (the 3 board members can be the Pres, VP, and S or T - this is for corporation paperwork). There are 4 Chapters that have incomplete boards.

Each chapter is required to hold a print and open framing competition, we have 4 chapters that did not even purchase prints for the print competition. How can you promote a competition if you do not even have the pieces to show and sell? All the competition reports appear to have been finally submitted but had to be chased down at the 11th hour. The reports are to be filed within 30 days of the competition or if the competition is late in the year asap. Sorry for the rant. We also had several chapters that did not have any entries for either competition. I know we have discussed this elsewhere so I do not want to rehash the topic.

We have 15 people on chapter boards that are not current on membership. Believe it or not this is better than it was a year ago.

I do not have the numbers on the chapters that have met the minimum meeting requirements but from looking at the above information you can see we have some issues to address and get worked out.

I am not listing Chapter names as I do not think any of the chapters have had this occur intentionally. Many of the chapters just have to few people at the helm and these wonderful volunteers also have their own businesses to keep going. With the combining of areas hopefully we can have more people in leadership positions to spread out the work to get more done.

Please encourage all your board members to get on here and check out this thread so we can all work together.

Thanks Robin

 

[Glenn Renick]

I would like to offer just one more suggestion, related specifically to the proposed North Central expansion and supporting the people in Montana and Wyoming. Please take one more look at Randy's map: https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=zuyJn2fp4Nwc.kxmR1hDTOUTk

Recognizing that some large chapter areas will be necessary, it seems logical that we would still want to maintain some contiguity among each chapter's membership (and prospective membership). Looking at the North Central proposal in light of the population distribution, there is a massive geographic void between the members in eastern Montana/Wyoming and any member in the North Central chapter. But there would at least be some continuity or proximity between eastern Montana/Wyoming members and other Montana/Wyoming members who are included with the Cascades or Mountain and Plains chapters. Given the extreme distance these people will be from any chapter activity center, wouldn't it be best if they were at least grouped with the members who are nearest to them rather than putting them in a chapter where the closest members are 500 miles away?

 

[Robin Gentry MCPF]

When you look at the area which now is the Northern Rockies Chapter you need to consider they are divided by the Rockies. This has proven over the years to be difficult for the chapter as no one will cross the mountains. Also at certain times of the year I am sure it is not something you want to do unless it is an emergency. So the current suggested division takes that into consideration.

Glenn there are some members in the area you are referring to that have worked in chapter leadership and may possibly step in to help on the North Central board with their area. With the help of a stronger chapter to guide them they may be able to build the membership in the area to a number which would support itself over time.

IF the boundaries are redrawn there is nothing that says they can not be altered in the future. IF members step in and membership grows smaller pockets (chapters/hubs) can form and break off from the larger areas. IF these changes occur and everyone says this is just not working we will look at things again and make changes. Nothing is stagnate (well unfortunately things are to a degree right now), we have the ability to change and try new things. We just can not continue to do the same things we have been doing over and over and over and over with the same results. It is time we try something. As someone said earlier if everyone that has commented on this thread would step up at the chapter level and help with something it would make a difference. I do realize there are several that have commented that are very active in the chapters and your hard work is greatly appreciated. We just need your volunteer ethic to rub of on more people!

So anyway one last comment: Albert Einstein - Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/a/alberteins133991.html#LoYeADYKavIYFQYU.99
​

 

[Randy Parrish CPF]

As Winston Churchill once said, “to improve is to change; to be perfect is to change often."

 

[Gregory K. Norris CPF]

Some of the fear seems to be that we won't change often.

 

[Robin Gentry MCPF]

Some of the fear seems to be that we won't change often.

I do agree with you. We need new people to become involved so the change does happen in a timely fashion. I personally think part of the reason things have remained the same for so long is we have not had enough new involvement. Do not get me wrong the people that have been in leadership for an extended period of time have done what they can but without new ideas being put forward we will always tend to stay with the familiar. Without new blood we all become complacent and let things just drift along. When things are good this seems to be okay. Maybe not ideal but things still get done and we all just say okay. When things get tough or slow down then we all start shaking our heads and going what the heck is happening, why did so and so not see that coming and why did changes not happen before now. So Please Become involved and help make this a positive change and also to help make the changes continue.

Bottom line is be open and accept help when it is offered. Make our members feel welcome, step outside your comfort zone, Be inviting. These are all things that will help to increase our membership and get others involved.

 

[Glenn Renick]

When you look at the area which now is the Northern Rockies Chapter you need to consider they are divided by the Rockies. This has proven over the years to be difficult for the chapter as no one will cross the mountains. Also at certain times of the year I am sure it is not something you want to do unless it is an emergency. So the current suggested division takes that into consideration.

Glenn there are some members in the area you are referring to that have worked in chapter leadership and may possibly step in to help on the North Central board with their area. With the help of a stronger chapter to guide them they may be able to build the membership in the area to a number which would support itself over time.

IF the boundaries are redrawn there is nothing that says they can not be altered in the future. IF members step in and membership grows smaller pockets (chapters/hubs) can form and break off from the larger areas. IF these changes occur and everyone says this is just not working we will look at things again and make changes. Nothing is stagnate (well unfortunately things are to a degree right now), we have the ability to change and try new things. We just can not continue to do the same things we have been doing over and over and over and over with the same results. It is time we try something. As someone said earlier if everyone that has commented on this thread would step up at the chapter level and help with something it would make a difference. I do realize there are several that have commented that are very active in the chapters and your hard work is greatly appreciated. We just need your volunteer ethic to rub of on more people!

So anyway one last comment: Albert Einstein - Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/a/alberteins133991.html#LoYeADYKavIYFQYU.99
​

Once for a 10 day family vacation, I did make the drive from Minneapolis to the area we are talking about. It was a two day drive each way, driving 10 hours each day. I probably could have done it in two 8 hour days but there were kids involved. I'm not sure how much better that is from going over the mountain range but if it is I'm sure the extra help will be welcome in our chapter. I think we'll need a new name, like the Wide Expanse Chapter. :smile-new: