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Boundary Reorganization

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[HL]I'm a bit confused....Are these boundaries now set in stone by the National Board or are we having a discussion so that they can be best desgined for the future?

John [/HL]

John
It sounds like they have been set in stone. However if this is a real discussion about the rezoning.
I think it should be put up for a vote by chapter if each chapter was in favor of the changes.
I think the chapter members should have a say in this.
If a chapter is desolved the chapters bank funds should be refunded to the dissolved chapter members as in a dues credit at the least. My understanding is that each Chapter is a seperate legal enity.
 
It is being discussed and the information being stated here is to be discussed by the CRC and the Board before the final approval.

As for setting up a bunch of small chapters you can not do this with out leadership in the areas. We have had domestic mailbox members for years who have never heard from any surrounding chapter and never felt involved. By including these areas in a geographical map it is the hope they will be contacted by the chapter. I know it is still not a guarantee but more likely to occur.

Any money from chapters which are dissolved will go to the new area which the member is aligned, so the money will serve the members.
 
Chapter boundaries- yes ideally chapters would be in every large population area. This does not occur because we do not have members willing to step in and lead. Just because the boundaries are currently being expanded it does not mean the leadership will remain the same. The hope would be you, the members, would see good leadership in the chapter and want to become involved in your area. One chapter could have 2-3 or more hubs of leadership which can plan events in the local area. These hubs of leadership would ALL work together as one group (the chapter) to serve the members.



People in general need boundaries. Using proper edicate, minding your manners, are typical boundaries for us to use on a daily basis. The lines however are not necessarily cut and dried, inflexible. They move around a little or are crossed over back and forth to varying degrees yet not to extremes. I think that having boundaries for chapters is necessary but they should be easy to cross over when circumstances warrant it. PPFA mission statement says 'PPFA will...provide forums contributing to...a sense of community.' Making it easy for members to mingle, associate, and work with other members of their choosing would be one way to fulfill that mission. You can't have a hub or even a chapter for that matter without leadership so if there are hubs they will naturally form by the members who take on leadership of the chapter. I don't think we need to or should make a rule for hubs but rather just let them happen as leadership takes shape and allow members to gravitate to the area that best serves their needs and desires. Also, making the boundary lines flexible eliminates them as a point of contention. Just make the map and move on knowing that the members are being served regardless of the physical lines drawn. Let's stick to the mission...encourage communities to be formed.
 
This is the first time I have responded to any post here on Framers Corner. I haven't had much time to be able follow so I just don't say much. I am going to say something about the boundaries because I believe it is necessary to speak up as a PPFA member.

I have been watching this discussion for 3 days now and have some questions. Out of all of this conversation I have yet to hear a good reason for the new boundaries - what are the GOOD reasons? Second, when do the members get to vote on a change in boundaries or don't the members vote and opinions matter? Finally, I thought the PPFA was concerned about membership. I believe that if these changes to boundaries goes through the way they are the PPFA is going to have a lot more to be concerned about because I believe there will be many members that will not renew. Speaking for myself as a member in Minnesota, if I had to drive 200, 300, 400, or more miles like some of the people from N. & S. Dakota or Montana to get to a meeting I would not even consider going - in fact I wouldn't drive if it was more than a couple hours away. In my opinion, the reason we don't have many members in the Western portions of the Dakotas now is because they won't drive that far. I have a business & customers to service and that is more important to me than a PPFA Chapter meeting that would take a full day or more to attend. I think there are many other things that should change with the PPFA before the boundaries become an issue. just my $0.02
 
Hi Joe
Let me try to answer your questions.
I have been watching this discussion for 3 days now and have some questions. Out of all of this conversation I have yet to hear a good reason for the new boundaries - what are the GOOD reasons?
Because of the change in the industry there are a lot less members and just framers in the country than there were 15 years ago so that now some chapters have little or no leadership as well as very few members. Thus they may not be kept in the loop, up to speed with events in the business. We need to get them covered.
Second, when do the members get to vote on a change in boundaries or don't the members vote and opinions matter?
Setting up things for the organization is what the leadership is for. Do you really want to take the time to get involved, educated, and really informed enough to make a logical vote in all of these matters? I don't. If the system is set up that serves members properly that's all we want and don't need to take our time to vote on it. Let the leadership handle it so that we can focus on our own businesses.
Finally, I thought the PPFA was concerned about membership. I believe that if these changes to boundaries goes through the way they are the PPFA is going to have a lot more to be concerned about because I believe there will be many members that will not renew. Speaking for myself as a member in Minnesota, if I had to drive 200, 300, 400, or more miles like some of the people from N. & S. Dakota or Montana to get to a meeting I would not even consider going - in fact I wouldn't drive if it was more than a couple hours away. In my opinion, the reason we don't have many members in the Western portions of the Dakotas now is because they won't drive that far. I have a business & customers to service and that is more important to me than a PPFA Chapter meeting that would take a full day or more to attend. I think there are many other things that should change with the PPFA before the boundaries become an issue. just my $0.02
There are many areas that within a 50 to 100 mile radius may only have 3 members or even framers for that matter. Putting on a physical event in that area certainly does not make any sense any more than driving 300-400 miles to an event. I wouldn't want to drive 300-400 miles either. That is an issue that the national organization needs to address but it is a separate item. There are 'many other things' that need to be handled but the chapters need to be identified so that the other things can be taken care of effectively and efficiently. That's what having stronger chapters should accomplish.
Thank you for getting involved!
 
Mike,

Thanks for the response. I still don't know how the Boundary Reorganization is going to help but as you stated the leadership is making the call.

Joe
 
Mike Thank You for your analysis. You have stated this very well and more precise than I have been able to.

Something I would like for everyone to keep in mind. Just because we are defining borders there is no reason we can not have the hubs with in these chapter areas. Take my chapter, Ky-Tn, the proposed map will include parts of Ohio, Indiana, Georgia, Alabama, Ky and Tn. What would be ideal would be for members in the added areas to become involved. These members would then start to reach out to others in their area and they become a group themselves. They would host events in the area they are in to serve the local members. This can occur in how ever many locations with the over all Chapter boundaries. The current chapter has leadership in place but wants to include others from the new areas. Those that have been in leadership before can help to answer questions for those that are new to the role and become mentors.

I can tell you it would Thrill the National Board and PPFA to have a hub in every town and city. If the small hubs grow and have involvement they can petition the CRC to form their own chapter boundaries. Right now we just have large areas with less population (framers) to carry a chapter without burning out the leadership.
 
Joe Weinbeck said:
This is the first time I have responded to any post here on Framers Corner. I haven't had much time to be able follow so I just don't say much. I am going to say something about the boundaries because I believe it is necessary to speak up as a PPFA member.

I have been watching this discussion for 3 days now and have some questions. Out of all of this conversation I have yet to hear a good reason for the new boundaries - what are the GOOD reasons? Second, when do the members get to vote on a change in boundaries or don't the members vote and opinions matter? Finally, I thought the PPFA was concerned about membership. I believe that if these changes to boundaries goes through the way they are the PPFA is going to have a lot more to be concerned about because I believe there will be many members that will not renew. Speaking for myself as a member in Minnesota, if I had to drive 200, 300, 400, or more miles like some of the people from N. & S. Dakota or Montana to get to a meeting I would not even consider going - in fact I wouldn't drive if it was more than a couple hours away. In my opinion, the reason we don't have many members in the Western portions of the Dakotas now is because they won't drive that far. I have a business & customers to service and that is more important to me than a PPFA Chapter meeting that would take a full day or more to attend. I think there are many other things that should change with the PPFA before the boundaries become an issue. just my $0.02
Click to expand...


There are currently 27 chapters. it's proposed to trim to 18, I would prefer 10 to 12 or even do away with chapters all together and I was opposed to change as much as anyone when I first heard this idea. Robin had posted stats on one of the committee forum which I think would enlighten the membership a great deal to see. A large number of them do no hold elections, do not have a full board to operate, do not have yearly competitions, have individuals listed on the board who have not paid membership dues, do not have meetings, have not filed mandatory paperwork. Some of them technically should have been auto dissolved just because they have have not filed the paper work and had proper representation. These chapters are being merged with others to better serve the membership. All of them have been offered help many times in the past and for whatever reason it was not enough. Nobody wanted to step on anyone's toes, but at what point do you let upsetting one or two volunteers, who may be trying to run things (or not) and let the entire chapter membership be undeserved because of its own leadership? The membership has changed and to do nothing and to not make changes does not serve the members in the long run. Change must happen.

Distance is a great issue and it's been debated for sometime, but we have to think out side of the box and think of ways to recreated value in the membership, that may include smaller or larger chapter meetings, maybes something all together different that we have not thought of yet. Rural chapters, larger chapters can not operate on the same expectations denser urban chapters do.
 
As Randy said, the reorganization was a reaction to the clearly dysfunctional organizations we have and a move to eliminate chapters completely. When you look at what chapters seem to be functioning well, it always revolves around a more than minimum board and reasonable transition in leadership of the chapter. That seems to occur easier with a critical mass of members in a chapter to draw from. Hence one of the key driving forces to reducing the number of chapters. If you couple that with a desire to eliminate the mailbox chapter to try to increase participation in the competitions you will see that "new chapter lines" quickly draw themselves with some minor tweeking of the individual members involved.

The idea of "boundaries" instead of hubs should be just an easy way to assign default chapters for members that don't have a preference. Keep in mind that our administration is performed PART TIME by a individuals in PMA that have to worry about other PMA members as well. The last data I had seemed to indicate that PPFA was about 12% of the membership of PMA. They are not particularly forth coming with money information, so I don't know if our revenue contribution is commensurate with that percentage. Part of the problem we run into is things like "choosing your chapter" potentially creating a time burden out of proportion to the administration time we "have available." (ie. they don't really seem to be able to handle the work they do now, never mind giving them more.)

We (PPFA members) have been trying to unburden Jackson for some time. Things like; the Framers' Corner was taken out of Jackson and is not run at a net profit by volunteers; the FindAPictureFramers.com sight (sans search of the DB) was taken out of Jackson and is now administered by the Consumer Awareness committee; The Member Advantage page, (although contracts still go through Jackson) is handled by volunteer; the management and control of the Convention Competition is handled by the Competition Board instead of Jackson (Although Jackson does considerable administrative support still).

If we could get "EDIT ACCESS" to the database, maybe we (The Membership Committee?) could handle the "request for chapter reassignment" and subsequent DB update?

We need to think of ways we in PPFA can get what we think is for the best of PPFA without increasing our administration burden on PMA.
 
Joe Weinbeck said:
I have a business & customers to service and that is more important to me than a PPFA Chapter meeting that would take a full day or more to attend. I think there are many other things that should change with the PPFA before the boundaries become an issue. just my $0.02
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I'm not picking on you personally, Joe, but you have hit a nerve with me. I have always been involved in chapter leadership and this is an excuse I hear over and over. Our chapter (National Capital) is geographically small, but many members say that they can't take a Sunday away from business/family/downtime.

This would be a legitimate argument if the commitment were for every weekend, or maybe even once a month. But, really, two or three times a year for something that will almost certainly boost your bottom line or at least expand your knowledge base?

I don't buy that, whether it is a half hour drive or an 8 hour drive (as members routinely do in the western states). One of the strengths of PPFA is the opportunity to improve your business at a reasonable cost. Who wouldn't want that?
 
Joe Weinbeck said:
...if these changes to boundaries goes through the way they are...I believe there will be many members that will not renew...if I had to drive 200, 300, 400, or more miles like some of the people from N. & S. Dakota or Montana to get to a meeting I would not even consider going - in fact I wouldn't drive if it was more than a couple hours away.
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Of course the mileage is an issue, but would the proposed changes drive members away? I don't think so, since other PPFA benefits are popular and perceived to have greater value than chapter meetings, and many of us have always had to travel long distances.

It has been about two decades since framers in most of Ohio could attend chapter events closer than 200 miles away, since the Ohio meetings were all planned in northern Ohio. The upcoming meeting in Louisville will be more than 200 miles away for us, as are the meetings we attend in the Pittsburgh and Indianapolis areas. This month's meeting in Traverse City, Michigan will be a 950 mile round trip for me.

Distance probably is not a deciding issue, since thousands of us flock to Las Vegas for WCAF and the PPFA Convention, and local suppliers often attract 50-100 or more framers to their Open House events. On the other hand, the majority of American framers cannot be persuaded to attend semi-annual local chapter meetings, or even to join PPFA. So, I respectfully submit that framers will travel whatever distance is necessary to attend events they really want to attend, but will not cross the street for events they do not care about. For nearly all of us, the decision to attend and event is decided by the value we perceive in going. When we see the value, then we find a way to attend.

If PPFA chapter events could consistently attract 30-50 framers, corporate sponsors would come forth to cover most of the costs, and then PPFA could earn significant revenue, which could be reinvested for the benefit of members and the whole industry. It is only a matter of reaching "critical mass". Done right, changing the chapter boundaries could help.
 
Chicago area has a large amount of members, they belong to the Heartland Chapter that chapter has been inactive for years, with half it of going to Wisconsin, they can now have meetings there, newsletters, communication going to members that is currently not, they can enter competitions, and revitalize the membership.


At Vegas last year I networked and met a lot of framers, many in a chapter close to mine, said they would love to join the PPFA, but they never hear about any chapter activities because their chapter has been non functioning for years. We are loosing prospect members and are aiming to fix it. Creating a larger pool of chapter leadership creates a greater pool of people to manage a chapter taking the burden off chapters that may function with only 2 or 3 people in a revolving leadership mode. Everyone who has taken the time to participate here should consider doing so at the chapter level too.
 
I'll take a shot at why we are working toward fewer chapters at this time.

As in any organization (church, museum auxiliary, hospital volunteer staff, you name it) there have to be people who are willing to step up and actually run the thing. Some folks volunteer with all good intentions, but never get anything done. Others have done it for so long that they are burned out, especially when they feel like they aren't appreciated. Still others are almost burned out, but their hearts are no longer in the work. And then there are chapters which have strong boards and rotating leadership.

PPFA wants to have all its chapters fully functioning. If we could find a strong leader pool, we could have 40 chapters. Heck, we could have so many that no one would have to drive more than 10 minutes.

But, wait! We don't have that many framers, whether they are members or non-members. So if we consolidate around strong chapters and combine them with weaker chapters all members will have an opportunity to plan and attend programs that will benefit the entire membership. As membership grows, I envision geographic areas breaking off and forming first sub-chapters and/or fully functioning chapters.

I, for one, would be delighted if Baltimore area broke off from National Capital (which does from southern Virginia to a little into Pennsylvania) if the framers there would meet the requirements.

In the meantime, it seems logical that we should start with fewer, stronger chapters, and then grow the number as we grow the membership.
 
Mexico is currently considered an International Mailbox member. Are they close to you? Do they attend your chapter meetings?

These are all things we need to hear.
 
Ellen Collins said:
I'm not picking on you personally, Joe, but you have hit a nerve with me. I have always been involved in chapter leadership and this is an excuse I hear over and over. Our chapter (National Capital) is geographically small, but many members say that they can't take a Sunday away from business/family/downtime.

This would be a legitimate argument if the commitment were for every weekend, or maybe even once a month. But, really, two or three times a year for something that will almost certainly boost your bottom line or at least expand your knowledge base?

I don't buy that, whether it is a half hour drive or an 8 hour drive (as members routinely do in the western states). One of the strengths of PPFA is the opportunity to improve your business at a reasonable cost. Who wouldn't want that?
Click to expand...

Ellen, I'm not taking it personal so please do not take my response personally. Many times things are not what they may seem and some of our leaders put blinders on and don't realize we have a life outside of framing. Believe me when I say, being a 1 person shop, I get so few days off that I am not going to spend some of my valuable personal time attending an event that I may have to drive an hour, 2, or more to get too. That could and probably would happen if the borders are changed. Luckily most of the meetings are now held within a 1/2 hour of my shop so if I do not have a previous commitment I would probably attend at least for part of the day. With that said, out of the last 4 years I have only been able to attend 1 chapter meeting, and that was only for a short few minutes, less than an hour. 3 of the 4 meetings were held on days that I already had a commitment, and those commitments were made long before I had an idea there a chapter meeting to be held. 1 of the meetings I would not have gone to anyway because I personally was opposed to where is was being held - it was a moral issue with me. So, I'll go ahead and hit those nerves, my business, family, and personal time is more important to me than a PPFA Chapter meeting.
 
It seems that the framing competition is a somewhat awkward part of the reorganization discussion. This is just a question. Given the objectives of consolidating chapters and increasing participation in the framing competitions, would it make sense to also group the newly defined chapters into regions, and hold the framing competitions on a regional level rather than expecting every chapter to conduct one every year? With 18 US chapters there could be 6 US regions, with 3 chapters in each, and an appropriate number of International regions depending on the number and locations of international members.

By doing this there would be fewer contests with only 1 or 2 entries (or no entries). A higher participation competition would be easier to promote to the general public as an industry showcase event. The quality of regional award winning pieces would be higher. I wouldn't mind expanding the awards if there were more entries at the initial competition level (for instance, I believe there should be separate judging and prizes for team entries instead of individuals needing to compete against a collective effort). By doing this, a group of chapters could share judging and contest administration, which would decrease the pressure of running the event for all of the chapters. Of course there may be database management issues for this idea also. And I can guess a few other concerns requiring discussion. Just an idea.
 
Joe Weinbeck said:
Ellen, I'm not taking it personal so please do not take my response personally. Many times things are not what they may seem and some of our leaders put blinders on and don't realize we have a life outside of framing. Believe me when I say, being a 1 person shop, I get so few days off that I am not going to spend some of my valuable personal time attending an event that I may have to drive an hour, 2, or more to get too. That could and probably would happen if the borders are changed. Luckily most of the meetings are now held within a 1/2 hour of my shop so if I do not have a previous commitment I would probably attend at least for part of the day. With that said, out of the last 4 years I have only been able to attend 1 chapter meeting, and that was only for a short few minutes, less than an hour. 3 of the 4 meetings were held on days that I already had a commitment, and those commitments were made long before I had an idea there a chapter meeting to be held. 1 of the meetings I would not have gone to anyway because I personally was opposed to where is was being held - it was a moral issue with me. So, I'll go ahead and hit those nerves, my business, family, and personal time is more important to me than a PPFA Chapter meeting.
Click to expand...

It is fortunate that Joe derives other benefits from PPFA than what takes place at the events. We love having him in our chapter and he has made contributions to events even when he has not been able to attend.

I wanted to make a distinction between meetings and events. We usually have a meeting as a component of some of our events but try to have distinctly separate educational sessions, trade-type shows, tours, social events, contests, etc. The events are designed for framers who feel they can benefit from interactive and hand's on sessions. If a framer is not inclined to spend any time outside of their business operating time it doesn't really matter when we schedule things and distance is probably a secondary factor. So, as much as Joe's contributions are recognized and appreciated, he may be the type of member that we are not going to use as the target model. Just as taking time for a PPFA event is lower priority for Joe and we may need to find alternate ways to support him, there are other framers that need and want a more interactive experience that live chapter activities will benefit.
 
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