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Boundary Reorganization

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Personally I think members going through an "open enrollment" process as John described would add unnecessary complications to the whole equation. Yes, there may be cases in which a member might want to be in a different chapter other than what geography would dictate. However there is no reason a member cannot participate in two (or more chapters) at once.

For example, if I lived in Atlanta I would belong to the Southeast chapter, but just barely. I'd be only a few miles from the Kentucky/Tennessee chapter and a short drive from the Carolinas. In that case I would simply contact the respective chapter presidents and asked to be added to their email list. I can't imagine any chapter would have a problem with potentially drawing more members to their chapter events.

As mentioned before though I would still contend that a member wanting to enter the framing competition would have to do so under the aegis of their home chapter.
I would say I was not in favor of an "open enrollment" period as it's typically envisioned. Agree it would be too complicated.

But, why not "assign" everyone to their map based chapter, but allow any member to make a one time realignment request.

Your example almost works ok, but falls down in practice. The problem is notification. Some chapters have their own mailing lists. (There are VERY GOOD reasons for this.) Some use the national list. So, a member has to figure out which has their own mailing list and register. That works ok for aggressive members and chapters that have their own lists. But what about the national email blasts? They only go to the ones that the database says are in the chapter requested. So, how do I as a member get on multiple lists? I can't. Your scenario is broken.
 
They only go to the ones that the database says are in the chapter requested. So, how do I as a member get on multiple lists? I can't. Your scenario is broken.

This is where the Chapter Leaders requesting the list need to step up and request the email blast be sent out to all the surrounding chapters. It is an Email list it will not "cost" any additional funds to add a few more emails to the list. Send it to all the chapters touching yours.
 
This is where the Chapter Leaders requesting the list need to step up and request the email blast be sent out to all the surrounding chapters. It is an Email list it will not "cost" any additional funds to add a few more emails to the list. Send it to all the chapters touching yours.
Which only works if you're NOT using your own chapter email lists and the ever changing chapter leader making the request remembers to do it.

And, how does that help, say the framer just over the Canada? I am certainly not going to request a blast to all Canada?

I think you're putting an onus unnecessarily on the wrong people.

I just don't understand what is driving the objection to letting a member make a one time choice of chapter.
 
For those who tried to help me find the map, I appreciate the response. The problem is that the map is not visible when viewing either the email or this thread on an Android phone. I found it when viewing with a computer. Thanks again!
 
Thanks for the information and map. I may attend meetings in all directions, but the Kentucky/Tennessee chapter is an easier drive for me.

There are two meetings coming up: April 27 in Traverse City, Michigan; and May 18 in Louisville, Kentucky. If any Ohio members would like a ride, Gail and I will probably drive to both meetings on Saturday morning and drive home Sunday evening after the events. We could take two passengers.
 
First I want to recognize this as an extremely positive project and I appreciate the board taking a look at ways to support a more active organization.

Reading through the comments, it appears the main concern is creating a structure that organizes chapters around the most active members and leaders while maintaining reasonable geographic reach for other existing and new members. There do seem to be some geographic challenges with the proposed structure. For instance, in the proposed North Central Chapter, the majority of the members, and all of the officers, are located along the extreme eastern edge. From Minneapolis/St. Paul, which is the activity focal point for the chapter, to the Wisconsin border is only 18 miles, but it is 1000 miles to the western edge of the proposed chapter area. There are a number of Wisconsin Chapter members who are closer to the Twin Cities than they are to the larger cities in Wisconsin where activities take place. On the other hand, I imagine there are framers in the Quad Cities area of Iowa who are closer to activities offered by the Wisconsin Chapter. From comments I've seen, it appears this scenario plays out in many places. And it is impossible to avoid this when chapters are defined by dividing the map into sections, no matter where you place the boundaries.

The suggestions to allow members to select their chapter are not based as much on the distance of the member to a chapter border as the proximity to the closest activity center for a chapter. Hoping he will not mind being used as an example (because he has already commented here), George Strange would be far better off participating with the North Central Chapter than the Canada Chapter, even though he is technically in Canada. As a regular participant in North Central activities he has a stronger professional relationship to members in Minnesota. To require him to ship a framing competition entry to a far removed site in Canada instead of competing with the members he regularly meets with would be a disappointment to him and the North Central members who know him.

While PPFA is the parent organization, the value for most members (and prospective members if we are to grow again) is in what takes place at the chapter level. If a framer finds the activities of one chapter convenient and meaningful but she/he is technically located in a chapter area that is inconvenient, I don't think we are serving that person as well as we could. I would rather see a hub system instead of an area system, with the member selecting their chapter. I suppose if a prospective member in Billings, MT did not see a chapter hub close by they might be discouraged from membership, but they are going to quickly discover there are no North Central activities within 850 miles anyway.

Even with consolidation and some pretty long distances, I think focusing membership on the most convenient chapter hub, with the framer deciding in which chapter they will participate, is the best way to support the membership. Figuring out how to maintain chapter mailing lists is a minor issue once you get past the conceptual issue of organizing around activity centers instead of identifying vast stretches of "territory". So my recommendation would be to mark the map with chapter activity spots, make those the chapter hubs and name them appropriately, let members choose where they will get the most participatory benefit, and put a chapter checklist on the membership form. By the way, I wouldn't have a problem with a member changing to a different chapter at the time they renew if they see that a different chapter is doing things they like better than the chapter they had been a member of.
 
Ohio could be divided up into a nothern and soutern chapter and I think it would do well. I think it as it is drawn now all memebers will have to far to travel. I see a great lack of attendence. When we had meetings
mostly in the northern part of Ohio. We saw maybe one southern memeber show. That was Jim Miller who is a diehard hard member. The way it is set up now It looks like a 2+ hour drive each way in any direction for the bulk of the Ohio members. To a 4 hour meeting unless it was some really big draw even I would be hard pressed to go> IMHO

When we combined our competition meeting with Kentucky 2012 we had only one member show up and one officer, When we combined our competition meeting with Mich. chapter 2013 we only had two members (they are now the president and VP of the Ohio chapter) and one officer show up.. Both had a great program planned.
 
The suggestions to allow members to select their chapter are not based as much on the distance of the member to a chapter border as the proximity to the closest activity center for a chapter.
To require him to ship a framing competition entry to a far removed site in Canada instead of competing with the members he regularly meets with would be a disappointment to him and the North Central members who know him.

While PPFA is the parent organization, the value for most members (and prospective members if we are to grow again) is in what takes place at the chapter level. If a framer finds the activities of one chapter convenient and meaningful but she/he is technically located in a chapter area that is inconvenient, I don't think we are serving that person as well as we could.

Even with consolidation and some pretty long distances, I think focusing membership on the most convenient chapter hub, with the framer deciding in which chapter they will participate, is the best way to support the membership.

Obviously I agree with the highlighted text.
 
Ohio could be divided up into a nothern and soutern chapter and I think it would do well. I think it as it is drawn now all memebers will have to far to travel. I see a great lack of attendence. When we had meetings
mostly in the northern part of Ohio. We saw maybe one southern memeber show. That was Jim Miller who is a diehard hard member. The way it is set up now It looks like a 2+ hour drive each way in any direction for the bulk of the Ohio members. To a 4 hour meeting unless it was some really big draw even I would be hard pressed to go> IMHO

Actually the majority of it's members are between Cleveland and Akron, there is not enough a concentration of members anywhere else in Ohio to form a chapter.
 
Randy's map is helpful, except all the Canadian members are not shown. Can you add these to the map, to see how hypothetically speaking we can redraw the boundaries regardless of national borders?

Having no activities nearby in a chapter does not discourage me from being a member. I get other advantages, such as this forum, stickers on my door, Find a Framer etc.

I think members ought to be able to choose to which chapter they belong every year they renew their membership - not just a one off choice.
 
Actually the majority of it's members are between Cleveland and Akron, there is not enough a concentration of members anywhere else in Ohio to form a chapter.

You are correct on your observation. I have heard two different stories about Ohio having two chapters at one time. Some say that there were two official PPFA chapters (North & South).
Another old timer, said that the Columbus area had their own social/business group but not really a true PPFA chapter. One way or the other, that is in the past. Now for the future.

I have just found a list (13 pages) of what seems to be picture framers in the State of Ohio. It seems to have been updated October of 2011. It could help us target potential members
from ALL of Ohio. What if we were to e-mail or snail mail a copy to each member of the Ohio chapter for review and up date. Over the last several years I am sure that some have gone out of business or changed hands - with updated info from each members area we could encourage more growth. As for statewide growth, just in the NW section of Ohio, I am amazed at the number of frame shops that exist. They can be found when you use yellowpages.com and ask for picture framers. We could add these statewide new prospects to the list. Each member then has a share of the future.

Does any one think this might be a good idea? You don't have to be an Ohio member to give feed back.

John
 
I agree with the hub system suggested by Mr. Glen Renick.
In my case, I live in Puerto Rico, which like Hawaii is not on the boundary map.
Boundaries or borders limit the amount of participation one can have, specialy if the Atlantic Ocean is between you and all of the chapters in the continental USA.
As far as I know, I am the only member of PPFA in Puerto Rico ( not enough to built a chapter ).
I joined the PPFA back when the organization had conventions in Atlanta ( I really miss it) every year that was my destiny, THAT was my chapter. Now like Mr. Kai Vanuffelen, the internet is my conection to PPFA.
Boundaries will not bring in new members, and a good and friendly competition is one with no limits to the creativity and to where you participate.
 
noticed a lot of diverse opinions, it would be impossible to satisfy all of us.hopefully the organizers of this will be able to create some flexibility to make things easier for the minority. we do need to thank them for the time and effort that has been put into this.it is very easy to point out the faults of a plan after it is on the table,not so easy to devise the perfect plan.
after reading my prev. post i think i should go back to school as a mature student to learn spelling.

george
 
I made this map of the membership, it helpful when looking at the Chapter Map to see where most of our membership is, although the info is date a few years.


https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=zuyJn2fp4Nwc.kxmR1hDTOUTk

That map is cool Randy. The pins make it look like were okay, until you zoom in. A lesson in perspective for me.

I tried to do one of those a few times, you are way techie smarter than me. But thanks for doing it.
Is that from a fairly up to date list? Knowing you it is.

Thanks, Randy.
 
noticed a lot of diverse opinions, it would be impossible to satisfy all of us.hopefully the organizers of this will be able to create some flexibility to make things easier for the minority. we do need to thank them for the time and effort that has been put into this.it is very easy to point out the faults of a plan after it is on the table,not so easy to devise the perfect plan.
after reading my prev. post i think i should go back to school as a mature student to learn spelling.

george
I'm sorry but english is no my first language, would you understand if i wrote in spanish
 
I agree with the hub system suggested by Mr. Glen Renick.
In my case, I live in Puerto Rico, which like Hawaii is not on the boundary map.
Boundaries or borders limit the amount of participation one can have, specialy if the Atlantic Ocean is between you and all of the chapters in the continental USA.
As far as I know, I am the only member of PPFA in Puerto Rico ( not enough to built a chapter ).
I joined the PPFA back when the organization had conventions in Atlanta ( I really miss it) every year that was my destiny, THAT was my chapter. Now like Mr. Kai Vanuffelen, the internet is my connection to PPFA.
Boundaries will not bring in new members, and a good and friendly competition is one with no limits to the creativity and to where you participate.

SE would be delighted to have you. And the boundaries being redrawn, so far is to offer coverage. It is by no means a quick fix; however, optimally have fewer stronger chapters (sounds good on paper anyway), creating powerful, relevant, inspiring chapter events (unfortunately with a lot of distance) to inspire more. More creativity, more sales, more inspiration, a 'MORE' framer helped by other framers seeking more; and perhaps this whole thing can be ...um, more.
Wow, that was far from profound.
I think I need another coffee.
 
I have heard two different stories about Ohio having two chapters at one time. Some say that there were two official PPFA chapters (North & South). Another old timer, said that the Columbus area had their own social/business group but not really a true PPFA chapter.
For the record, there was once a Central Ohio chapter, commonly called COPPFA, which was active when I started framing in 1988. As I recall, the President was Barb Baker, the former owner of Reed Arts in Grandview, and Jim Baker (her brother?) was also very involved. I believe the Vice-President was Tim O'Neil, who was employed Fifth Avenue Galleries at the time. He now owns Reed Arts. The chapter was quite active at that time, but in the early 90s, it fizzled when the hard-working leaders got tired of doing all the work and nobody else would step up.

Also, back then a couple of longtime Columbus framers were anti-PPFA for reasons I never fully understood, but I believe it had to do with local competitive animosity, and they launched a successful campaign to kill the chapter. I tried to resurrect it a few years later, but could not get the local framers to play nice. To this day, a few Columbus framers still disdain PPFA, but most of the nay-sayers are gone. Maybe a new effort toward membership could bring in some new members.

What if we were to e-mail or snail mail a copy to each member of the Ohio chapter for review and up date. Over the last several years I am sure that some have gone out of business or changed hands...
Good idea. Yes, there has been a lot of change in our market, and it's still going on.
 
I'm sorry but english is no my first language, would you understand if i wrote in spanish

Edgardo, I don't think George was commenting on your spelling, but his own. Your English is just fine. And no, Spanish wouldn't help most of us. :smile-new:

Your perspective is really interesting because we have so many members that are isolated just like you.
 
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