Didn't enter for a FREE RIDE......

[Robin Gentry MCPF]

Keep the thoughts coming. I do hope more will chime in to the questions I posted.

For me the purpose of the competition was personal challenge. It took me a couple years before I would enter as I was new and did not want to judged against my peers since I was new. I finally decided it did not matter what others thought when they saw my piece I was entering to better my framing and this was the best way to do it. I would get information about what I was doing wrong, right, and what I could do better. When I did enter it was with this attitude and I learned a lot. So from then on that is why I entered. To learn.

So for the questions Russ poses. My response would be the competition is for education and the betterment of ones framing abilities. It ties into PPFA's purpose through the educational opportunities offered. The competition offers a critique of your framing ability. Yes some only enter to compete and be compared to others but the ultimate goal is to compete with yourself. Use the competition as a way to better your framing ability and try design options you may want to experiment with.

By getting the critique you will see areas where you want to improve your knowledge this will point you to the classes or books you want to participate in or read. It will all come down to expanding your abilities.

Just my thoughts.

Robin

 

[Randy Parrish CPF]

What if only one person enters a competition? Is it a competition? Can a first prize be justified? If the chapter's non functioning and as some of could have guessed that there was a 99% chance no one else was entering why not bend the rules? Nicole's chapter, The Heartland Chapter was leaderless, at some point somewhere above the chapter level, a committee or neighboring chapter needs to either facilitate and fulfill chapter minimums as a default mechanism.

What if there is a minimum number of entries to hold a competition? How would you handle this? How many prints where sold to chapter members would be one way, maybe the easiest way to say the competition should be held.

What if only one person buys a print? Shouldn't that entry be allowed to at least compete in the Mailbox Chapter or why not a another chapter? Why does it have to be your geographical chapter? I know there is talk of doing away with the Mailbox Chapter but who know how long that may take if ever.

A simple rule of thumb would be, if you entered a competition and you where the only one to do, you could be judged, you could earn, if the work justified it, honorable mention, judges award, first time entry but if you wanted to earn a place award you have to have competition, so then your entry could move on to the Mailbox Competition.

In Nicole's case she was entered and judged at a multi chapter event, simply having the option in such a case having the option to group ALL ENTRIES in one pool would make it a REAL competition and much more exciting for everyone I think. Then having award or ribbon for best in chapter would be fair.

Randy I am going to ask some questions

1) What is your thought on the minimum score to advance or place that others have mentioned? This is hard one, I have judged competitions where all the work was average to below average but it was the only work in the competition. It is a big thing to enter a competition so no I would not discourage participation.
2) Do you think the competition should be cancelled if only one person enters? See above

3) If the competition is cancelled do to low entries, how would this affect the chapter as most do not know how many entries will show up until the day of judging? If the chapter has arranged judges and accommodations then they will be out this expense. This is new to me, we don't or haven't compensated judges for anything.

4) Should the chapters have the pieces turned in prior to the competition? How would you mandate this? It would be more rules which we do not want. Our chapter get's the work a few days before any event so that we can judge the work and still take part in any chapter activities.

5) Do you think by assigning mailbox members to a chapter for competition purposes this will help increase participation? See above

6) What steps should a chapter take to increase participation? Make the entry fees and cost of the print standardized for all chapters. I saw this year a huge spread in cost for the flower print. The cost should just be key-stoned and factor in a entry fee to the price and tell the chapters this is what to charge. For example. Print competition and entry fee $50, Open Competition entry fee $25
There is a real desire to have a fun competition with no rules other than maybe a size restriction, no framing standards, something based on looks alone. I think in Vegas it would be super fun to have a scavenger hunt frame competition, where you have to beg borrow and steal to frame something within an hour. Not sure how that would work, something like Chopped or Cup Cake Wars only with frames, you could have work stations or participants would have to rely on the good graces of the vendors at the show. Either way I think it would get some publicity.

 

[Cathy Coggins]

Randy and Robin, great answers and great questions.
Respect ya both more and more all the time.

Taking on change as the so much is in flux right now is so hard to do. once some things are changed regarding chapters, regions, mailbox...in the next 12 months so many things are going to be turned on theirs heads, until then making due is so...um, complicated,:sour:.

I just entered my very first competition over the weekend. Yikes I have learned so much, about myself, my framing, my peers, my Chapters inner-workings, organizing the logistics, accredited judging, paperwork. It was a tsunami of an event and it was tiny. 5 entries, 3 Open, 2 Print.

I will summarize for brevity as this thread is lengthy and concise is not my forte.

-Reading the evaluations, definitely (DEFINITELY) reflected 3 stark personalities. Cannot emphasize this enough, and this topic alone could be dissected to a death of oblivion.

-I really learned a lot about my approach to framing, it caused me to look at my own work with different eyes. (I was not fond of all the views, but suck it up buttercup, I put my work in to be evaluated by judges not my peeps).

-I came in second of 2, glass full or glass empty. AND I do believe the point system for grading a piece and whether or not it should move on to International is warranting further discussion. I do not think one of my 2 pieces is worthy.

-Peoples choice and judges choice was a cool thing, the piece that did the worst of my work was voted most popular, a nice consolation that I ain't all off my rocker.

I have more thoughts, but it was a whopper of a weekend for me. Will post more.

There is so much work to be done and being done in PPFA, it is refreshing to see it happening. And I anticipate the fruition of so much hard work; but good golly, we got some closets to clean out ideologically and in implementation. It all works if we bring a covered dish! (Sorry another metaphor).

 

[Trevor Yates CPF]

Hi Robin.
Before attempting to reply to your questions I would like to make it clear that in my opinion you already have by far the BEST Framing Competition Worldwide.I understand that in order to remain at the top, ongoing fine tuning will continue. Being a member of the Australian/New Zealand chapter I admit that I am not fully conversant with all guidelines involved with running the competition at your local chapter level. My involvement with the competition comes from entering via the International Mailbox Chapter.

1) What is your thought on the minimum score to advance or place that others have mentioned?
I don"t think that this is the answer. How a competition is scored is at the judges discretion. In previous competitions, I have had scores from each judge that varied from the 60s to the 80s on the same piece. Some judges like to offer high scores, others don't, that's their prerogative. If we had the same judge every year ,it may work, but as you know, getting the same judge every year, is possible.If there is only one entry then I believe that they are entitled to proceed on to the finials.

2) Do you think the competition should be cancelled if only one person enters?
NO. They have taken on the challenge to enter the competition and should not be penalized if they are the only entrant.

3) If the competition is cancelled due to low entries, how would this affect the chapter as most do not know how many entries will show up until the day of judging? If the chapter has arranged judges and accommodations then they will be out this expense.
Maybe a way around cancelling the competition and disappointing entrants is," Chapter leaders should be notified in writing 2-3 weeks prior to judging if a member is entering. If the number of entries are low(2 or less)then they should then be entitled to enter via the Mailbox."
4) Should the chapters have the pieces turned in prior to the competition? How would you mandate this? It would be more rules which we do not want.
See above. It would be the entrants responsibility to notify the Chapter Leader. If no notification is received, it would be deemed that the entrant is not entering.


5) Do you think by assigning mailbox members to a chapter for competition purposes this will help increase participation?
Can't see that it would increase participation.


6) What steps should a chapter take to increase participation?
Now that's a hard one. All you can do is regular reminders of the educational benefits to be gained from entering. Some framers think that competitions are a waist of time. I certainly don't, but no matter what you do, getting some framers to enter is impossible.


You only have to look at the number of threads that this discussion has attracted to realize how popular the competition is. Like I said, it is the best Framing Competition worldwide. It always draws a large crowd at the announcement of the winners at the finials and is a credit to the Competition Board, Judges and the many behind the scenes volunteers who make it such a success each year.Please don't change things too much.

 

[Pat Kotnour]

Yah... No thanks.

I'm suggesting that the competition commitee take into consideration some way to for go this so it's at least a fair contest. Or maybe there are others that WANT the free ride.?
I don't know.

I personally entered for me .. To compete against others. I didnt fo this for my customers .

You were at the WCAF show last year and saw the entries and I have seen all the competitions from the last 5 years. You should be proud of your pieces. They were great and as Ellen said, certainly good enough to compete in LV. From what I have seen of your work, you are a gifted framer, so don't miss the chance to go to the big show. It would be a shame if you don't send them........they are good and deserve to be there.

 

[Mikki Kavich MCPF]

So since I am the pres of KY/TN this year and because of this thread I have tried to get an idea of how many entries we might have this weekend.


I purchased 3 Print pieces in Vegas and all three were sold.
I called each framer this week...

One decided to expand her shop .... she just has NO time and also told me she has no clue where it currently is even if time opened up.

Another framer has the piece and in phone messages I have left for her I have offered to help her find any info she needs to enter. She has not called me back ( I'm kind of thinking she may not get it done. Maybe it did not "speak" to her after she got it.)

The third framer has bits and pieces of it started all over the shop. Busy week that may not get done.

Conclusion...we can hope for 2 entries but we may be lucky to have one so I called the judge coming for the furthest away, not part of our chapter, and told them we would LOVE to have them join us but I was not sure there would be much judging going on. I did not want them to make a long drive for a commitment that went away.



For Open, locally and Internationally there have always been less entries so again maybe we might have ONE.

Could this change I hope so. I really would love to see someone get all fired up this week and bring an Open piece!

I don't know a fix for the lack of participation but what I do know is that a lot of framers in and out of PPFA just don't understand competition framing. A woman said to me last year she had never seen such horrible framing and would not want her employees to see all the failed mounts. I think she might not get that we try our best to use best framing practices but it is hard when you have to deal with UPS monkeys throwing boxes. That is part of the competition weighing out all your choices.

I personally in my few years of competition framing have never looooved the Print piece. I find that part of the challenge!
On Open pieces I get to do something I LOVE!
I like the two different competition choices it works different parts of my design brain.

So Monday I will let you know but my best guess is there will be very few entries in our local competition but if there is one entry then it will go on to play with the big boys in Vegas!
Because if you come to play you get to go on to the next round.

 

[Gregory K. Norris CPF]

Mikki, we had less than half what we had last year. We went from 8 in each category to 3. This is the lowest number we have had since 2006. In our case it wasn't a "trend" but a confluence of independent events that caused several to drop out late in the game. We lost one to judging, and the rest to shop oriented things...that were all good: moves, growth, big jobs that came on the scene late in the game.

I know there is a lot of concern about the decline in entries at all levels. But I don't think there is any single reason or that it is a sign of an undiagnosed problem in the system. I think it is a part of a cycle, and that the numbers will go back up.

On the other hand, if the posts I have been reading are any indication, you are right about most framers not really understanding the competitions. The rules are necessarily a dense read. I don't know the answer, but I do know that the competition boards over the years have been very consistent in their drive to make the competition as fair as possible as well as to encourage more framers to enter.

 

[Ormond Williams MCPF]

A woman said to me last year she had never seen such horrible framing and would not want her employees to see all the failed mounts. I think she might not get that we try our best to use best framing practices but it is hard when you have to deal with UPS monkeys throwing boxes.

I have never entered a PPFA framing competition and there are a number of reasons for that, which I won't go into here!

I do know that many people do not understand why it's more important to use preservation/conservation hinging that often fails in transit to a framing competition, than it is to use a non preservation/conservation mounting method for competitions pieces that will travel long distances with shipping companies.

I wonder how non framers view the 'standard' of framing of professionals, when they see so many failed mounts at the premier PPFA event of the year?

 

[Mikki Kavich MCPF]

That was what hit me Ormond from her comment. She did not know that we all have to weigh our options on framing these. I think it is an extra consideration that we may not have to make in our normal framing practices because for the most part our framing does not get shipped there and yon and we want the mount to fail given some hard knocks in a normal framing job but for competition we know it is going to get BOUNCED!! ( WOW holy run on sentence!)

The year of the guitar I got knocked down because of my hinging method but that puppy held where many did not because of the glossy rough back that piece had. Last years rock did major damage when it got loose. It also depends on the judges each year...the year of the guitar the failed mounts were viewed as a problem and last year a piece with failed mounts did well because the mounts did their job.

I have a love hate relationship with my score sheets each year. My first year in international comp. a judge took points for not using conservation glass and I was fuming over it...I cut a piece of convex glass in half and made that the glass for my piece. I was so PROUD of cutting that glass! LOL! How dare he not get that!

Two years ago a judge did not know that CMI had a new AF backing paper in a dark grey and marked me down for using craft paper.

But on the whole, especially when a judge has spoken to me privately after, when they have a comment or a suggestion I look at my piece in a different way and that is what I LOVE!

To quote Linda Wassel on guitar year...."how are you going to open that back up if something does happen?" OH! yeah well I was so in my head with that piece I did not even worry about or consider that! I know crazy. What that did tho was make me think pieces out better all the way around.

Can you tell I LOVE COMPETITION framing!

Sincerely Susan Lucci ( one day I will get the big one! LOL!) ( I love judges awards, they make me very happy and proud but I want an Oscar!)layful::madgrin::first::first:

 

[Pat Kotnour]

This is a very interesting discussion.

I have heard from others the competition is to stringent and the requirements should be relaxed. These people think this is what would encourage more entries.

But here I am hearing just the opposite. Make the requirements at chapter level more stringent so there has to be a minimum score to advance or place.

This may be a good poll question for the FC.

As for the Mailbox Chapters the issue of entries for them will be addressed in the next competition year. After the International Competition this year you will be getting more information. Hopefully the changes will encourage more entries at the chapter level.

Please keep the discussion going. Some good ideas are coming out of this discussion.

Why not factor in the circumstances of how a entry needs to be attached to make it through the shipping process. It is something that every shop faces when they need to ship a picture or shadowbox. There could be a place on the description sheet that allows the entrant to explain the proper way of mounting the artwork when not shipping, and then the way they had to mount it for shipping reasons. You may have a lot less damaged pieces for the big show if framers are allowed to use methods that are not considered totally archival. It seems to me that it would be just as important for a framer to know how mount when shipping as it is to know the proper archival way. Most shops deal with both problems all the time. It could be useful as a learning and teaching experience for both entrants and judges.

 

[Ormond Williams MCPF]

I was fortunate enough to be there in Anaheim the year of the guitar piece. In fact I photographed them.

There were a stack of them that had broken loose and were wonky in the frames. I wondered at that time what non-framers were thinking about it!

 

[Robin Gentry MCPF]

Every entrant gets a copy of the score sheet. They can look and see what the points lost or gained would be if the mounting is not preservation/conservation quality. Most of the time you would only loose one or two points and you can only be marked down one time for this so you can not get dinged multiple times for the same thing. Competitors need to take this into consideration when they are preparing their piece.

If you choose to do a mount that is not conservation you can explain why. On the description form there are questions to be answered and opportunity for you to explain things.

From the description sheet:
1. TECHNIQUES:
Mounting ____________________________________________________________________________________________
Preservation __________________________________________________________________________________________
Joining ______________________________________________________________________________________________
Mat Cutting __________________________________________________________________________________________
Fitting ______________________________________________________________________________________________
Support Systems ______________________________________________________________________________________

2. Other information that might be important to best understand this design.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
[FONT=&quot] ____________________________________________________________________________________________________[/FONT]

 

[Cathy Coggins]

Well, we had 5 pieces total in our competition. And 4 of them were NEW entries...2 of course were mine, but what the hay! It's progress.

We had lots of enthusiasm around the display, and framers asking about competition, and lots of Chickie saying, "you can do this too!". Optimistic.

Already planning for next years piece, not my fav, but cool colors and a great bit of potential.

The glass is half full, add sprinkles to top up!

 

[David Lantrip MCPF GCF]

Two years ago a judge did not know that CMI had a new AF backing paper in a dark grey and marked me down for using craft paper.

Which is why it's so incredibly important to make sure all materials are clearly listed, and explained if necessary, on the entry forms. If there is any ambiguity the judge has to err on the side of caution. But at the same time don't write a novel. When I've judged that's been one of my pet peeves, along with excessively flowery and long back stories on the design goal.

 

[Gregory K. Norris CPF]

I've been marked down a couple of times because I wasn't clear enough in my documentation. It is well worth doing this early so that you can have someone proof-read it. It can be very helpful to have someone ask, "now, what exactly do you mean with this statement?"

I understand completely why it isn't possible, but I have often wished it were possible to have a conversation with the judges about the entries and judging decisions. I think I could learn a lot from that. As it is, I learn quite a lot just from the process, not to mention challenging myself with the design and framing.

 

[Becky Florence CPF]

This year, for the the first time, I was the competition coordinator as well as secretary for the New England chapter for both the open and print competitions. OH WHAT FUN!!! I learned SO much! It's hard to believe there are not several people fighting over the secretary spot! It is such a great learning tool to see the judges in action.

During this years Leadership Conference we had a mock competition and was able to see the process the judges go through. The competition pieces were done by volunteers. I would love to see each chapter and it's usual judges do something similar and video tape the process for members to see.

 

[Gregory K. Norris CPF]

Becky, does NE have the same judges from year to year?

 

[Becky Florence CPF]

For the last couple years, yes. The pool of judges has been about 5, I believe.

 

[Cliff Wilson MCPF]

For the last couple years, yes. The pool of judges has been about 5, I believe.

That's funny, I would have answered, no.
we have mixed it up pretty well I think. Off the top of my head, we've used six judges in various combinations. I don't think we've used the same combination twice.
Although, since I can't compete as a member of the board, I have been one of the judges every time.

 

[Becky Florence CPF]

Funny indeed! Not the same 3 judges each time, but a different combination of the same 5 is correct, yes? For the past 2 years, that is.