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WCAF 2025

Didn't enter for a FREE RIDE......

[QUOTE PPFA needs all the support it can get, but membership isn't for everyone, apparently. It's too bad.[/QUOTE]

Jim it is to bad because people that are not afraid to voice their opinion are what we need. They just also need to be able to look at the perspective of others so everyone can come to an amicable agreement. I don't know about most of you but I do not respond well to my way or the highway. I do have strong opinions but feel most of the time I am capable of considering others opinions.
 
Robin Gentry said:
...I do not respond well to my way or the highway.
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I agree with you.
:thumb:

Nicole might have said nearly the same thing with reference to the repressive nature of established rules. She seemed to perceive a "PPFA way or the highway" mindset, which didn't appeal to her.

Plenty can be accomplished by members who are willing to develop a proposal for improvement and work for its implementation. Unfortunately, those who only express an idea and expect others to formalize it are usually disappointed. Yep, it's too bad.
 
Robin Gentry said:
Jim it is to bad because people that are not afraid to voice their opinion are what we need.
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People with opinions are valuable to PPFA. People with opinions who are willing to work towards improving the organisation are even more valuable!

If we all had unrealistic expectations, and bailed out if our 'advice/opinion' was not implemented immediately, there would be no members!
 
Welcome back Nicole!

Based on your avatar, it looks like you are here again!

I hope to see your piece in Las Vegas, and I hope that I will be able to compete against you then. Our competition results won't be known until later this month.

Again, welcome back. All opinions are welcome.
 
Nicole has a very valid concern, I for one commend her for having the courage to bring it forward. Under her circumstances, Would You?
Some of the chapter finalist I viewed in Vegas last year were of a quality of standards that I would NOT have expected from an organization titled, Professional Picture Framers Association. Matter of fact I felt it was degrading to everything I felt the organization should be about, Pride & Professionalism. Thank God, that truly high quality entrants were present.
THINK ABOUT THIS ---A world wide organization of professionals is awarding the Best of the Best. This must be an truly Awesome Event right?
Perhaps if in the Local Chapter judging process , an entrant should have to meet a percentage of scoring points in order to place in a finalist category. Such as it is done in the M.C.P.F. testing. I believe they have to maintain 96% in all judging categories in order to continue further in their quest.
Nicole, does this seem to make sense? This way if only one is the entrant. And by meeting the points standard requirements, it will be something to be VERY PROUD of.
WE ALL WANT TO BE THE BEST WE CAN BE, AND WE WANT TO EARN IT.


( Once I won as an only entrant, never was comfortable with it, even though I did my best. Won another as 1ST place, and also voted best of show by my piers. That was a time I am proud of .)
 
Jim Miller said:
Plenty can be accomplished by members who are willing to develop a proposal for improvement and work for its implementation. Unfortunately, those who only express an idea and expect others to formalize it are usually disappointed. Yep, it's too bad.
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Guidelines are always in a state of flux. Just because the guidelines are set for one year they are always up for review and editing. Every year changes are made, some large some small. As you say if a formalized proposal can be presented it is considered and sometimes implemented sometimes not. But at least the reasons can be presented in a non confrontational way for both sides.
 
David Hewitt said:
Some of the chapter finalist I viewed in Vegas last year were of a quality of standards that I would NOT have expected from an organization titled, Professional Picture Framers Association. Matter of fact I felt it was degrading to everything I felt the organization should be about, Pride & Professionalism...
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This seems like a harsh judgment. Who among us could not build better framing? PPFA has always welcomed participation from all members, regardless of skill and experience. One purpose of competitions is to help members learn and improve, as comparing with others is a very good way to identify deficiency or to verify proficiency.

Perhaps if in the Local Chapter judging process , an entrant should have to meet a percentage of scoring points in order to place in a finalist category. Such as it is done in the M.C.P.F. testing.
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There's a world of difference between the purposes of a framing competition and a qualification exam. Framing competition is to test one's skills against other entrants, but the MCPF is to test one's skills against established standards. In competition, only one ultimately succeeds as the best, but in a qualification exam, all candidates are welcome to succeed.

If minimum standards were included for framing competition, what would happen if nobody in a particular chapter could score high enough to proceed in the competition? As a framer, I probably would not be interested in joining any competition where my entry might be judged "not good enough to enter".
 
What if only one person enters a competition? Is it a competition? Can a first prize be justified? If the chapter's non functioning and as some of could have guessed that there was a 99% chance no one else was entering why not bend the rules? Nicole's chapter, The Heartland Chapter was leaderless, at some point somewhere above the chapter level, a committee or neighboring chapter needs to either facilitate and fulfill chapter minimums as a default mechanism.

What if there is a minimum number of entries to hold a competition? How would you handle this? How many prints where sold to chapter members would be one way, maybe the easiest way to say the competition should be held.

What if only one person buys a print? Shouldn't that entry be allowed to at least compete in the Mailbox Chapter or why not a another chapter? Why does it have to be your geographical chapter? I know there is talk of doing away with the Mailbox Chapter but who know how long that may take if ever.

A simple rule of thumb would be, if you entered a competition and you where the only one to do, you could be judged, you could earn, if the work justified it, honorable mention, judges award, first time entry but if you wanted to earn a place award you have to have competition, so then your entry could move on to the Mailbox Competition.

In Nicole's case she was entered and judged at a multi chapter event, simply having the option in such a case having the option to group ALL ENTRIES in one pool would make it a REAL competition and much more exciting for everyone I think. Then having award or ribbon for best in chapter would be fair.
 
Randy has some good points.
I asked earlier, why not let members decide in what chapter they like to belong?
Why not have non functioning chapters be absorbed into neighboring chapters?
If members are allowed to belong to whichever chapter they like to belong and if many members of a chapter decide to jump, then the leadership will get the message that they have to sharpen up their act.

What will happen, if the mailbox Chapter is disbanded? How will those members who fall outside a chapter or those whose chapter does not run competitions be able to enter competitions?
 
Kai Vanuffelen said:
I asked earlier, why not let members decide in what chapter they like to belong?
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I'm quite sure that you already know the answer to that question!

Kai Vanuffelen said:
and if many members of a chapter decide to jump, then the leadership will get the message that they have to sharpen up their act.
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Some facts that you may not have realised, Kai:
1. The leadership of chapters are VOLUNTEERS who are trying to do what they can for members and for PPFA, in the time they have available!
2. VOLUNTEERS are difficult to find! Some chapters may not have sufficient volunteers to do what needs to be done!
3. Any member can volunteer to take a position of leadership so they can do a better job and improve the chapter!
 
First, by no means would I want to discourage any one from wanting to compete in any event, and I truly apologize if I appeared harsh in any way.

However as in a non juried art show, verses a juried art show, should one expect a difference in the level of quality of the art being presented?
At a national event I expect to see a higher level of presentation. The local chapters is where you earn your way to a national event. But in my opinion it should be earned and not granted by default.

A solution to the problems Nicole has presented us warrants being considered and looked into, in fairness to all.

Would you show a national award winning artist (recognition by default) whose work was far less than all your other artist works? Would that be fair to the other artists you represent? would it be honorable in regards to your customers who value your judgment?
 
This exchange of thoughts is very productive I think if it really leads to reevaluating how the competition is done. A combination of these ideas could make for better results and thus even better framers.

i do think that perhaps meeting some minimum score before placing 1,2or3 by default would be wise. A person could still qualify for other placements such as first time entry and such. However a min score to move on to international IMO would benefit everyone. If you moved on even when the turnout was slim you would know you truly earned it.
 
This is a very interesting discussion.

I have heard from others the competition is to stringent and the requirements should be relaxed. These people think this is what would encourage more entries.

But here I am hearing just the opposite. Make the requirements at chapter level more stringent so there has to be a minimum score to advance or place.

This may be a good poll question for the FC.

As for the Mailbox Chapters the issue of entries for them will be addressed in the next competition year. After the International Competition this year you will be getting more information. Hopefully the changes will encourage more entries at the chapter level.

Please keep the discussion going. Some good ideas are coming out of this discussion.
 
Randy I am going to ask some questions

1) What is your thought on the minimum score to advance or place that others have mentioned?

2) Do you think the competition should be cancelled if only one person enters?

3) If the competition is cancelled do to low entries, how would this affect the chapter as most do not know how many entries will show up until the day of judging? If the chapter has arranged judges and accommodations then they will be out this expense.

4) Should the chapters have the pieces turned in prior to the competition? How would you mandate this? It would be more rules which we do not want.

5) Do you think by assigning mailbox members to a chapter for competition purposes this will help increase participation?

6) What steps should a chapter take to increase participation?

I am sure I will think of more once there are some responses.

Thanks Robin
 
Knowing how many prints have been sold for a competition and to whom does not work, as I for one bought two prints and only entered one. The reason being, that if the piece gets lost in transit, I still have a spare to recreate and hang in the shop. Some may have bought a print, because they like the design and do not intend to enter the competition.

Still one or two collector-framers may buy a print year after year to add to their collection.

What about the open competition? There is no way of knowing beforehand, how many entries there will be.
 
First, I believe this discussion is great, but I also believe we need to get back to basics and ask ourselves: 1) What is the purpose of the competition? and2) How does it (or how should it) tie in with the purposes of PPFA?

One of the great things I love when I see the competition pieces, at the PPFA / WCAF is the great variety of framing. They range from "exceptional" to "simple". From "wonderful" to "I don't know". Yes, some of those first time entries might not be up to the high standards that some of us might believe are necessary for "finalists", and I'm sure some of those first or second place winners in some of the chapters might also be in this category.

But there have also been winners in the first time entries, and probably winners from those that were in chapter competitions that had only one or two entries. And by looking at all of the entries, you get the sense of members trying / stretching to get better.

And, at a personal level after looking at the others in the category, I realize I have had some of those "I don't know" ones too. But I really didn't know until I got to Vegas and saw some of the exceptional. So for me, it is an exceptional education opportunity to look at the comments on the 1 or 3 critique forms.

One of the disappointments I have when I see the competition pieces in the PPFA /WCAF is seeing the apparent decline in the number of entries. I remember my first year at the convention center, when there must have been around 40 to 50 entries in the Print competition. {but fewer in the Open}. Last year what was it 20 or so for Print and maybe 15 or so with the Open?. {Maybe there were more, but having on the back wall, it looked like there were not that many}

I'm sure part of the decline can be blamed on the economy, with shops closing, and with chapter memberships declining and some closing. But I'm sure the total number of members who participate in the competition is also declining significantly. IMHO it would be a travesty to put more rules in place that would make this number even smaller.
 
I agree with other posts about having a minimum level for qualification to international.

My suggestion would be changing the prerequisite for international to be:

Must have placed 3rd or higher in the Chapter competition AND have a total score of X or higher.
​

We could also consider just having a score minimum, which would potentially allow a virtually unlimited number of entries per chapter. I wouldn't think that would be a bad thing.

As to the idea of canceling a competition because of lack of interest (unless there are NO entries), first of all it seems very impractical. Secondly, and more importantly IMO, what about the first-timer who agonizes over their entry and spends hours burning the midnight oil only to find that "sorry, there was no one else so we decided to cancel"? Now if THAT was what had happened, I would understand (and envision) Nicole being really upset and quitting.

FWIW, the NEPPFA had their print competition yesterday and there were EIGHT entries :first:
 
Robin Gentry said:
Randy I am going to ask some questions

1) What is your thought on the minimum score to advance or place that others have mentioned?

2) Do you think the competition should be cancelled if only one person enters?

3) If the competition is cancelled do to low entries, how would this affect the chapter as most do not know how many entries will show up until the day of judging? If the chapter has arranged judges and accommodations then they will be out this expense.

4) Should the chapters have the pieces turned in prior to the competition? How would you mandate this? It would be more rules which we do not want.

5) Do you think by assigning mailbox members to a chapter for competition purposes this will help increase participation?

6) What steps should a chapter take to increase participation?

I am sure I will think of more once there are some responses.

Thanks Robin
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I am not ignoring your post Robin I just haven't had time to answer yet. I do have some thoughts to share soon.
 
WCAF 2025
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